1 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:17,180 [Music] 2 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:19,960 hello everyone and welcome to the 3 00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:21,850 everything else show this is Martin 4 00:00:26,250 --> 00:00:23,800 Willis your host and we have a great 5 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:26,260 guest just quick little housekeeping 6 00:00:31,140 --> 00:00:28,930 here it is possible it's not set in 7 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:31,150 stone but it's possible that I may be 8 00:00:38,990 --> 00:00:34,180 moving over to a live internet radio 9 00:00:41,420 --> 00:00:39,000 show kgr radio over on Tuesday nights so 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:41,430 again it's in the works right now 11 00:00:45,870 --> 00:00:43,570 nothing to panic about I don't know if 12 00:00:50,090 --> 00:00:45,880 anything's gonna change much anyway 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:50,100 our guest this evening is JW ochre and 14 00:00:54,990 --> 00:00:53,290 he has a great website I encourage you 15 00:00:58,709 --> 00:00:55,000 to check it out 16 00:01:01,889 --> 00:00:58,719 and it's odd things I've seen dot-com 17 00:01:02,790 --> 00:01:01,899 now he's written several travel logs now 18 00:01:05,969 --> 00:01:02,800 we're gonna be talking about that 19 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:05,979 tonight he's been everywhere and he's 20 00:01:12,420 --> 00:01:08,670 looked at macabre sites and attractions 21 00:01:16,199 --> 00:01:12,430 artifacts and all those regions his work 22 00:01:18,719 --> 00:01:16,209 has appeared on cnn.com at the web site 23 00:01:21,210 --> 00:01:18,729 for the Atlantic the Rue Morgue magazine 24 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:21,220 The Boston Globe and on and on and on 25 00:01:25,859 --> 00:01:24,330 and he's got a Facebook page otice 26 00:01:28,469 --> 00:01:25,869 Facebook page 27 00:01:29,219 --> 00:01:28,479 Otis odd things I've seen that's what 28 00:01:31,430 --> 00:01:29,229 that stands for 29 00:01:35,130 --> 00:01:31,440 and also on Twitter you can find him and 30 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:35,140 welcome to the show how are you doing 31 00:01:39,749 --> 00:01:36,190 good thanks for having me I appreciate 32 00:01:43,100 --> 00:01:39,759 the opportunity to talk okay yes and 33 00:01:46,710 --> 00:01:43,110 we're we're we're darn near neighbors 34 00:01:49,559 --> 00:01:46,720 yes yes so are you exactly 35 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:49,569 I'm in the great state of Maine that was 36 00:01:55,290 --> 00:01:51,940 totally without power for almost a week 37 00:01:56,339 --> 00:01:55,300 last week I know that was a rough one 38 00:01:59,070 --> 00:01:56,349 I had trees come down the neighborhood 39 00:02:01,109 --> 00:01:59,080 and stuff yeah yeah so yeah so anyway 40 00:02:04,169 --> 00:02:01,119 it's good to have you on and let's talk 41 00:02:08,059 --> 00:02:04,179 about about you how did you get 42 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:08,069 interested in these these strange and 43 00:02:12,210 --> 00:02:10,450 paranormal things it sounds also like 44 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:12,220 you live a pretty exciting life you do a 45 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:14,770 lot of traveling go a lot of places and 46 00:02:20,819 --> 00:02:17,230 your family must love it or do they roll 47 00:02:22,050 --> 00:02:20,829 their eyes no they like it I mean my I 48 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:22,060 have to 49 00:02:26,610 --> 00:02:24,610 two girls one that's almost eight and 50 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:26,620 one is three the eight-year olds death 51 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:28,270 to get in that age where she'd rather do 52 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:32,080 anything on the iPad as opposed with me 53 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:34,270 sure but it in general is fun we find 54 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:35,950 spots that are like everybody likes and 55 00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:37,870 you know we jump on her jumping jump in 56 00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:40,720 the car and do a road trip I don't 57 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:43,360 remember exactly how it all started at 58 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:44,920 some point I didn't realize that like 59 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:47,260 everywhere was like these weird sites 60 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:48,910 and literally everywhere no matter where 61 00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:50,500 you were you jump in your car and just 62 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:52,660 drive ten minutes and you'll find 63 00:02:56,009 --> 00:02:54,610 something weird and then obviously 64 00:02:58,020 --> 00:02:56,019 what's the internet came online like 65 00:02:59,820 --> 00:02:58,030 that that was the map like everything 66 00:03:00,509 --> 00:02:59,830 everything you wanted to learn about was 67 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:00,519 on the Internet 68 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:03,250 so the amount of tools that are out 69 00:03:07,949 --> 00:03:05,140 there as far as finding stuff getting to 70 00:03:10,259 --> 00:03:07,959 it you know GPS and Google Streetview 71 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:10,269 and everything suddenly the entire world 72 00:03:14,670 --> 00:03:12,910 you get to the most obscure sites you 73 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:14,680 know with minimal research the most 74 00:03:19,229 --> 00:03:17,530 ludicrously minimal research and this 75 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:19,239 opened up my eyes is how much is out 76 00:03:22,380 --> 00:03:20,530 that they go see like not even like 77 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:22,390 across the world but just like across 78 00:03:26,580 --> 00:03:24,880 the state or across the town or across 79 00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:26,590 the city you know there's unlimited 80 00:03:29,699 --> 00:03:28,329 stories that are weird that have some 81 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:29,709 kind of physical presence that you can 82 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:31,510 go you know fit in your camera lens 83 00:03:35,789 --> 00:03:34,090 now what there's a place somewhere in 84 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:35,799 New Hampshire that they call it New 85 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:37,900 Hampshire's Stonehenge I've been there 86 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:39,130 at one time do you know what I'm talking 87 00:03:44,370 --> 00:03:41,260 about I do it's a couple of towns over 88 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:44,380 from me in Salem that's right yeah yeah 89 00:03:47,819 --> 00:03:46,150 it's a really cool site that you go 90 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:47,829 there and it's like it's a it's a bunch 91 00:03:52,530 --> 00:03:50,410 of stones on a hill with a bunch of 92 00:03:54,750 --> 00:03:52,540 ominous names like the sacrificial table 93 00:03:58,199 --> 00:03:54,760 stone like little places you can go in 94 00:03:59,580 --> 00:03:58,209 and out it's a very murky history it's 95 00:04:02,190 --> 00:03:59,590 one of those one of those histories 96 00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:02,200 where there's a lot of fingerprints all 97 00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:04,209 over it so a lot of its past kind of 98 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:05,950 lost which also kind of makes it cool as 99 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:07,690 well it gives a lot of cachet and a lot 100 00:04:11,970 --> 00:04:10,030 of just a great vibe yeah it's a great 101 00:04:14,190 --> 00:04:11,980 place again and that kids good that in a 102 00:04:16,590 --> 00:04:14,200 second you know clamber on some rocks so 103 00:04:19,310 --> 00:04:16,600 yeah really cool mysterious old site 104 00:04:25,110 --> 00:04:19,320 that is now did they ever come up with 105 00:04:28,469 --> 00:04:25,120 any explanation for what that was yes so 106 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:28,479 depending on the the spectrum that you 107 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:32,409 land on it's either you know ancient 108 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:35,650 stones connected to Europe somehow 109 00:04:40,140 --> 00:04:37,900 maybe Native Americans or it's just a 110 00:04:41,430 --> 00:04:40,150 bunch of kind of cellar stones at at 111 00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:41,440 some points whoever bought the land 112 00:04:47,010 --> 00:04:43,870 moved around into a more mysterious 113 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:47,020 configurations but this is what on each 114 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:49,449 side of the coin explanation yeah there 115 00:04:53,909 --> 00:04:51,910 always is though ya know and I know 116 00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:53,919 there's a yeah I don't know much how 117 00:04:58,110 --> 00:04:56,500 much exploring you've done as far as you 118 00:05:00,000 --> 00:04:58,120 know ancient type sites but I know 119 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:00,010 there's a lot of possible 120 00:05:09,210 --> 00:05:02,110 you know Native American Indian mounds 121 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:09,220 or some type of you know stone yes in 122 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:10,810 New England there's not as many but like 123 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:12,550 what you get out of like the Midwest and 124 00:05:15,930 --> 00:05:14,470 the westerner is like effigy mounds or 125 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:15,940 like to actually build mounds of the 126 00:05:19,409 --> 00:05:18,130 shapes of I've been to like I think it's 127 00:05:21,090 --> 00:05:19,419 Serpent Mound out in Ohio where it's 128 00:05:23,219 --> 00:05:21,100 actually in the shape of a giant serpent 129 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:23,229 there's giant people mounds or giants 130 00:05:28,529 --> 00:05:26,830 mouse becomes of dirt the size of like a 131 00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:28,539 three-story building that was just meant 132 00:05:31,860 --> 00:05:30,400 as a burial chamber I just went out in 133 00:05:33,150 --> 00:05:31,870 the West Virginia that's a room you know 134 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:33,160 come across Virginia that's a that are 135 00:05:35,820 --> 00:05:34,720 really massive but yeah those are 136 00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:35,830 fascinating 137 00:05:38,969 --> 00:05:37,780 I could spend like you know a year just 138 00:05:41,850 --> 00:05:38,979 jumping between those all across the 139 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:41,860 country yeah yeah yeah you know that 140 00:05:46,110 --> 00:05:44,080 wouldn't that wouldn't be a bad idea for 141 00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:46,120 if someone was writing a book just on 142 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:47,440 you could write a book on just those 143 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:49,870 sites probably you know they're not 144 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:54,510 another travelogue always an excuse 145 00:06:00,060 --> 00:05:57,970 publisher contract and gas no yes I'm 146 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:00,070 gone those two those two last things 147 00:06:07,170 --> 00:06:03,910 yeah especially so you have a book it's 148 00:06:09,150 --> 00:06:07,180 a bit showing on YouTube right now def 149 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:09,160 and Douglas and now you have how many 150 00:06:15,629 --> 00:06:11,530 books do you have total so that the 151 00:06:17,939 --> 00:06:15,639 Beckwith is my fifth book uh-huh and the 152 00:06:21,060 --> 00:06:17,949 one I also want to talk to you about is 153 00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:21,070 he Edgar Allen Poe book what what's the 154 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:22,590 title of that one in particular that 155 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:26,710 one's called Poland the hallowed haunts 156 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:28,780 of Edgar Allen Poe so that one basically 157 00:06:36,029 --> 00:06:33,190 I visited every sites and artifacts and 158 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:36,039 memorial connected to him up and down 159 00:06:38,969 --> 00:06:37,510 the East Coast anywhere he lived or 160 00:06:41,189 --> 00:06:38,979 spent a good deal of times that's all 161 00:06:43,529 --> 00:06:41,199 the way north of Boston to South 162 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:43,539 Carolina and tons of stops in between 163 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:47,500 New York Rhode Island Virginia Maryland 164 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:49,210 all those sites 165 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:51,530 and I spend some time over in London as 166 00:06:54,070 --> 00:06:52,490 well cuz he lived for about five years 167 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:54,080 in London and there's some sites over 168 00:06:58,450 --> 00:06:56,330 there as well so the kind of the angle 169 00:07:00,760 --> 00:06:58,460 was that I was I was investigating the 170 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:00,770 physical legacy of Poe so obviously it's 171 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:02,990 literary legacy is pretty you know 172 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:04,190 pretty much in hand you know the 173 00:07:07,990 --> 00:07:06,080 academics and all of us readers we're 174 00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:08,000 keeping that thing alive but the 175 00:07:12,460 --> 00:07:09,680 physical legacy is kind of in the hands 176 00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:12,470 of collectors and museum managers and 177 00:07:15,570 --> 00:07:13,910 the kinds of people who do erect 178 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:15,580 monuments and box 179 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:18,440 actors who portray Poe all these guys 180 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:19,610 are kind of keeping the physical 181 00:07:23,020 --> 00:07:21,170 elements of Poe alive whether it's a 182 00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:23,030 building that he honeymoon then that's 183 00:07:27,340 --> 00:07:25,220 being that's being kind of preserved to 184 00:07:29,890 --> 00:07:27,350 you know pieces of his coffin and his 185 00:07:31,180 --> 00:07:29,900 hair in the hands of collectors so idea 186 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:31,190 what's gonna put together a biography of 187 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:33,110 Poe based literally on physical stuff 188 00:07:37,630 --> 00:07:35,450 that was left over you know whatever was 189 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:37,640 a hundred and sixty years after he died 190 00:07:44,170 --> 00:07:40,820 now did he did he move around a lot it 191 00:07:46,470 --> 00:07:44,180 sounds like he did tons so he was born 192 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:46,480 in Boston grew up in Richmond Virginia 193 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:48,530 lived for time in Baltimore Maryland 194 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:50,930 lived for a long time in various places 195 00:07:57,820 --> 00:07:54,830 in New York lived in South Carolina for 196 00:07:59,640 --> 00:07:57,830 about a year what I'm missing what am I 197 00:08:02,350 --> 00:07:59,650 missing 198 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:02,360 so yeah five or six states they invested 199 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:03,890 London he lived in London for a while so 200 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:07,070 yeah and always because mostly because 201 00:08:11,740 --> 00:08:09,290 he was poor and was constantly chasing 202 00:08:13,570 --> 00:08:11,750 writing jobs so he was just on the run 203 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:13,580 looking for money it's basically why he 204 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:17,570 moves often and now when he hit when he 205 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:20,810 hit his his book or his book that was a 206 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:22,730 hit I should say the Raven 207 00:08:26,620 --> 00:08:24,620 you know everything changed for him 208 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:26,630 after that right I mean that's when he 209 00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:29,690 became famous yes yeah his biggest 210 00:08:33,459 --> 00:08:31,460 amount of Fame came from the Raven I 211 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:33,469 think he got like six bucks for it total 212 00:08:38,350 --> 00:08:36,710 lifetime earnings but unfortunately you 213 00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:38,360 know he died not too many years after 214 00:08:42,909 --> 00:08:39,680 the Wright Post published so definitely 215 00:08:46,180 --> 00:08:42,919 his star rose a bit but he was never 216 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:46,190 ever comfortable or famous famous you 217 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:47,270 know the kind of Fame that he would know 218 00:08:51,070 --> 00:08:49,430 about he just got some good you know in 219 00:08:53,020 --> 00:08:51,080 his day at least he got some like some 220 00:08:55,270 --> 00:08:53,030 good press about it and did some talks 221 00:08:57,460 --> 00:08:55,280 around it but he wouldn't get real fame 222 00:09:00,340 --> 00:08:57,470 until you know you know another 50 years 223 00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:00,350 after his death yeah oh is that right 224 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:03,510 isn't that sad you know kind of like 225 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:06,090 van Gogh you know same thing sold one 226 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:08,340 painting in his lifetime for $15 you 227 00:09:13,490 --> 00:09:11,850 know you know it's the worst I always 228 00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:13,500 call it a cosmic joke right so you spin 229 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:15,420 your tire life he's been his entire life 230 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:16,770 trying to like make a name for himself 231 00:09:20,270 --> 00:09:18,450 and do something interesting unique 232 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:20,280 totally that it succeeded in that but 233 00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:22,740 never really realized it but these days 234 00:09:27,950 --> 00:09:24,840 like maybe he's everywhere he's on 235 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:27,960 t-shirts TV shows movies there's toys at 236 00:09:31,970 --> 00:09:30,210 them there's an entire NFL football team 237 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:31,980 named after his poem like for goodness 238 00:09:35,510 --> 00:09:33,060 sakes that should never have happened a 239 00:09:36,890 --> 00:09:35,520 million years but like he's and that can 240 00:09:39,050 --> 00:09:36,900 perfect he'd never been a dreamed of how 241 00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:39,060 like populated vegan obviously it 242 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:40,320 doesn't matter at all so at the mouth a 243 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:42,660 little late yeah yeah yeah that's like 244 00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:44,810 just completely out of balance 245 00:09:49,810 --> 00:09:47,640 hey in the chat room I wanted to say 246 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:49,820 hello to Connie Willis now that's no 247 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:53,700 we're not related but she's been on my 248 00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:55,290 show she does a great show herself 249 00:10:00,650 --> 00:09:58,080 called blue rock talk with Connie Willis 250 00:10:03,170 --> 00:10:00,660 and anyone listening I just thought I'd 251 00:10:07,220 --> 00:10:03,180 throw that out there it's a she has 252 00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:07,230 great shows she's kind of a Bigfoot I 253 00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:09,480 wonder I don't want to say sufficient 254 00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:11,880 art oh but she she has a lot of guests 255 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:13,560 that have something to do with Bigfoot 256 00:10:20,210 --> 00:10:17,130 now I do want to talk about all 257 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:20,220 different topics with you but while 258 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:22,770 we're on Edgar Allan Poe because I 259 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:25,650 remember reading I think it was a pit in 260 00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:27,690 the pendulum you know when I was really 261 00:10:33,650 --> 00:10:30,720 young and it scared the heck out of me I 262 00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:33,660 mean I was you know he was he was such a 263 00:10:40,490 --> 00:10:38,760 great writer now his death wasn't that 264 00:10:44,450 --> 00:10:40,500 like the weirdest thing I mean he died 265 00:10:46,850 --> 00:10:44,460 young like 40 something but didn't they 266 00:10:49,250 --> 00:10:46,860 was it a mysterious death do it or have 267 00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:49,260 a Dexter Lord you're dead on you're dead 268 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:51,060 on with his death so he died at 40 269 00:10:56,210 --> 00:10:54,720 exactly 40 he was at the time and he 270 00:11:00,200 --> 00:10:56,220 said his star was kind of rising because 271 00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:00,210 of the Raven he was his wife had already 272 00:11:04,070 --> 00:11:02,070 died by that time he had found he's got 273 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:04,080 to get the gates to a childhood you know 274 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:07,470 love in Richmond so he things were 275 00:11:11,450 --> 00:11:09,210 turning around for him and then he got a 276 00:11:12,770 --> 00:11:11,460 editing job in Philadelphia he was 277 00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:12,780 actually living in New York was in 278 00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:15,540 visiting friends in Richmond and was on 279 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:16,440 his way on the train 280 00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,210 Philadelphian who this editing job that 281 00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:21,120 he got hired for and then that's all the 282 00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:23,100 stories that people know so that we know 283 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:25,470 so what happens next is he appears in 284 00:11:28,970 --> 00:11:27,030 Baltimore for no reason it wasn't 285 00:11:30,140 --> 00:11:28,980 supposed to be there well you know just 286 00:11:34,940 --> 00:11:30,150 got off the train in Baltimore it was 287 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:34,950 found kind of semi-conscious and a kind 288 00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:37,530 of kind of a tavern slash polling place 289 00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:40,140 in clothes that weren't his he was found 290 00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:41,310 by somebody that knew him because he did 291 00:11:44,510 --> 00:11:42,750 have lived in Baltimore for a long time 292 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:44,520 had family in Baltimore so he had 293 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:46,230 contacts there they found him they took 294 00:11:50,450 --> 00:11:48,630 him to the hospital or Frank two days he 295 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:50,460 was in a fever and delirious and saying 296 00:11:55,820 --> 00:11:52,980 weird things and then died we don't know 297 00:11:58,520 --> 00:11:55,830 why he died why he was in Baltimore what 298 00:12:00,740 --> 00:11:58,530 been wrong literally zero clue about 299 00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:00,750 this death which is a big part of his 300 00:12:03,980 --> 00:12:01,830 legacy and this is a guy that invented 301 00:12:05,690 --> 00:12:03,990 the mystery genre and he was obsessed 302 00:12:07,730 --> 00:12:05,700 with death and his stories so they had 303 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:07,740 that kind of ending satisfies us 304 00:12:11,510 --> 00:12:09,810 obviously satisfying and then rebuild 305 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:11,520 terms but as as readers or people who 306 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:14,010 want a story it satisfies us that his 307 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:16,290 life intersected so well with his kind 308 00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:18,570 of subject matter I that really you know 309 00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:22,380 morbidly appeals to us we have really 310 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:24,840 written weird strange I think that story 311 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:27,030 now you mentioned earlier well someone 312 00:12:34,670 --> 00:12:32,040 has a lock of his hair and is that do 313 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:34,680 you know if that was post if that was 314 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:35,490 after he died 315 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:37,650 post mortem yeah yeah so it's kind of a 316 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:40,050 custom back then to take locks of yeah 317 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:43,080 Abraham Lincoln's hair so yeah yeah 318 00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:44,730 there's a few of them out there I know 319 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:46,380 there's one in private collection 320 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:48,210 there's one at the Richmond home use iam 321 00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:52,800 there's one in library in Baltimore sort 322 00:12:56,780 --> 00:12:55,080 of a few out there again the assumption 323 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:56,790 is they're all taken at his death but 324 00:12:59,630 --> 00:12:58,050 there might been one or two that he kind 325 00:13:01,040 --> 00:12:59,640 of like Clifton gate to you know one of 326 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:01,050 his paramours 327 00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:03,710 as that was also a custom back then well 328 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:06,390 one of the reasons I was asking that 329 00:13:12,340 --> 00:13:09,450 particular question is can't they take 330 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:12,350 the hair of someone that was sick and 331 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:15,570 and actually figure out what was 332 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:17,940 happening to them when I mean it's 333 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:20,610 almost like exhuming you know figure out 334 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,350 if he died mysteriously 335 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:24,720 you think that the fan you know Edgar 336 00:13:29,390 --> 00:13:26,250 Allen fans after all these years would 337 00:13:30,070 --> 00:13:29,400 want to know I think they have done that 338 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:30,080 actually they did 339 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:32,690 I want to say between five and ten years 340 00:13:38,290 --> 00:13:35,450 ago nothing conclusive was found on the 341 00:13:40,180 --> 00:13:38,300 sample they tested it that I know of 342 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:40,190 the theories for his death are 343 00:13:45,850 --> 00:13:43,730 everything from rabies to alcoholism to 344 00:13:47,890 --> 00:13:45,860 just getting beat up because a polling 345 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:47,900 place a was that and you might have been 346 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:50,510 you know one of the political like Moos 347 00:13:53,380 --> 00:13:52,220 back then was to just for people to vote 348 00:13:54,610 --> 00:13:53,390 over it over again and get them drunk 349 00:13:56,590 --> 00:13:54,620 beat them up all the kind of stuff so 350 00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,600 there's like probably half a dozen to a 351 00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,680 dozen theories about his death but 352 00:14:00,640 --> 00:13:59,120 they've never maybe they tested there 353 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:00,650 they never conclusively you've ever come 354 00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:03,050 to a answer and they never will they 355 00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:04,790 unless you know something miraculous 356 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:07,550 happens they never will and obviously I 357 00:14:13,390 --> 00:14:08,930 don't I kind of like the mystery of it 358 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:13,400 yeah yeah okay so let's talk about some 359 00:14:18,910 --> 00:14:17,530 of the the odd places you've you've been 360 00:14:22,050 --> 00:14:18,920 sure 361 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:22,060 and but one let's see now you've gone 362 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:25,010 and you've gone overseas as well not 363 00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:29,330 just in the United States but so so you 364 00:14:33,010 --> 00:14:31,070 look on the internet basically you try 365 00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:33,020 to find something that's intriguing and 366 00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:34,760 then you make a road trip is that is 367 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:37,220 that how I'm understanding this you are 368 00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:39,680 exactly right so we my favorite way to 369 00:14:43,690 --> 00:14:41,750 find stuff is dig around the internet 370 00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:43,700 these days I can rely a lot on tips as 371 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:45,860 well like look Louise II like even 372 00:14:48,130 --> 00:14:46,610 though the Internet has almost 373 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:48,140 everything on it like local tips are 374 00:14:52,690 --> 00:14:50,990 still like gold so I try to find is I 375 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:52,700 have a PI own my own personal map of the 376 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:54,290 country with like oddities plotted 377 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:56,210 everywhere and then I try to just build 378 00:15:00,520 --> 00:14:58,610 an itinerary in a roadtrip to get from 379 00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:00,530 oddity da da da d if it's a weekend road 380 00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:02,360 trip if it's a week road trip if it's 381 00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:05,150 you know nine days I just try to like 382 00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:06,560 pack that in with the site and it's just 383 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:09,920 a constant stream of sites it's you know 384 00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:12,170 stretches of highway that's exactly what 385 00:15:14,770 --> 00:15:13,280 I love to do like where I'm the most 386 00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:14,780 happy uh-huh 387 00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:18,950 and so have you have you been anyplace 388 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:23,180 that actually let's just say gave you 389 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:27,050 the creeps or you or you had some type 390 00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:29,750 of physical reaction to being in a 391 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:31,910 certain area has that ever happened so 392 00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:34,340 it has but it's not in the way you'd 393 00:15:38,110 --> 00:15:35,780 think so I have been I've stayed 394 00:15:40,690 --> 00:15:38,120 overnight and murder scenes and then you 395 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:40,700 know haunted asylums and haunted prisons 396 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:43,970 and then nights a graveyard 397 00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:46,190 I love doing that kind of stuff but I've 398 00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:48,500 never really the only times I've ever 399 00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:51,920 really spooked myself badly is in my own 400 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:52,460 house 401 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:55,310 so I don't know why that is I think it's 402 00:15:59,170 --> 00:15:56,570 partly because when I'm actually out on 403 00:16:01,270 --> 00:15:59,180 the site to kind of expect stuff to be 404 00:16:03,310 --> 00:16:01,280 spooky and I'm on I'm a kind of in work 405 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:03,320 mode I'm like you know gathering details 406 00:16:08,020 --> 00:16:05,030 information so I want to describe this 407 00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:08,030 later well is that my work or at home I 408 00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:09,800 don't expect you know something weird to 409 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:12,020 happen in my refrigerator or you know a 410 00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:13,970 sound at night it's why I'm lying in bed 411 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:16,220 that is the worst for me I cannot ever 412 00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,810 but if my wife and kids go out of town 413 00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:20,480 to see family I will seek with lights on 414 00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:22,190 half the time to say hear sound and I 415 00:16:25,930 --> 00:16:24,260 try to blame everything on a cat but 416 00:16:28,660 --> 00:16:25,940 like at some point the cats on your bed 417 00:16:32,110 --> 00:16:28,670 and that sounds tough but you're like ah 418 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:32,120 man I am really freaking myself out so 419 00:16:37,390 --> 00:16:34,370 it's always you know the home place the 420 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:37,400 places where I'm most vulnerable and and 421 00:16:41,950 --> 00:16:39,050 lacking defense that's when I get the 422 00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:41,960 most you know spooked yeah I gotta tell 423 00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:45,740 I got a tell story i i I've been in the 424 00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:47,990 antiques and auction business basically 425 00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:50,390 all my life and so I was having this 426 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:54,200 auction on a load at a location in up in 427 00:17:00,130 --> 00:16:57,650 Maine and I was working on it I was in 428 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:00,140 there in the house alone and I turned 429 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:03,770 and for a split second I could swear 430 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:06,680 that I saw a woman in black with a black 431 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:09,530 bonnet just standing there and then she 432 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:11,330 was gone just instantly it was just like 433 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:14,510 a flash so the family came back to the 434 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:17,090 house and I finally got the courage up 435 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:21,290 to ask them if if anything if anyone 436 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:22,910 ever talked about anything in the house 437 00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:26,090 as far as being haunted and they said my 438 00:17:31,030 --> 00:17:28,160 mother used to the woman said my mother 439 00:17:33,490 --> 00:17:31,040 used to see a woman in black and I got 440 00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:33,500 the creeps because I knew I had to stay 441 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:36,800 over at that house so the the night I 442 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:38,570 had to stay over at that house was the 443 00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:40,370 night before the auction I had every 444 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:41,870 single light on in the house 445 00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:43,790 talk about freaking yourself out I 446 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:45,830 didn't see anything nothing happened but 447 00:17:50,410 --> 00:17:48,410 I didn't sleep a wink I was just on pins 448 00:17:51,550 --> 00:17:50,420 and needles a whole night oh it's the 449 00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,560 worst feeling like when you're not 450 00:17:55,540 --> 00:17:53,120 experiencing that really liked regular 451 00:17:56,830 --> 00:17:55,550 life you're kind of where people like at 452 00:17:58,570 --> 00:17:56,840 least my temperament I want 453 00:17:59,919 --> 00:17:58,580 that experience I'm like looking forward 454 00:18:01,630 --> 00:17:59,929 to it but the second it's happening I'm 455 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:01,640 like ah get me out of this experience 456 00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:04,010 that actually want to be here I liked it 457 00:18:07,149 --> 00:18:05,150 I liked it in concept like in the 458 00:18:09,610 --> 00:18:07,159 stories and books ii happens to be in 459 00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:09,620 just like what have I done to myself so 460 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:12,049 hip you actually mentioned that you you 461 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:14,390 stayed in a place where someone was 462 00:18:20,289 --> 00:18:18,529 murdered and an asylum also and a few 463 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:20,299 other places like that sue actually he's 464 00:18:26,769 --> 00:18:23,330 like slept in these places and oh yeah 465 00:18:28,029 --> 00:18:26,779 what was that like I mean it was I mean 466 00:18:30,010 --> 00:18:28,039 sometimes there were organized 467 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:30,020 activities and I stayed the night in a 468 00:18:34,750 --> 00:18:33,350 prison in mounds of the West Virginia so 469 00:18:37,630 --> 00:18:34,760 it was like a group of people it was an 470 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:37,640 officially sanctioned kind of event you 471 00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,970 it's it's it's paranormally based so 472 00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:42,559 people are coming there with like their 473 00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:44,990 equipment to kind of like you know try 474 00:18:49,419 --> 00:18:47,480 to find ghosts or like the Lizzie Borden 475 00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:49,429 house you know Massachusetts they just 476 00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:50,840 stay there to be a be basically seeking 477 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:53,870 like is it really stay it is a B&B you 478 00:18:57,490 --> 00:18:55,730 stay the night in Lizzie Borden's room 479 00:18:59,200 --> 00:18:57,500 which I did or in the room where like 480 00:19:01,779 --> 00:18:59,210 one of the murders happened and just 481 00:19:03,940 --> 00:19:01,789 wander in the house at night so there's 482 00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:03,950 all these like you know they're almost 483 00:19:08,529 --> 00:19:05,929 attractions at this point where they can 484 00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:08,539 like it's meant to be it you know for 485 00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:10,100 it's meant for you to do they want you 486 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:11,600 to come over it's been monthly and hang 487 00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:14,720 out so in some ways it's um I don't know 488 00:19:19,930 --> 00:19:17,809 it's not spooky in that sense and in 489 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:19,940 other ways just surreal like why you 490 00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:21,110 know why is it like 3:00 in the morning 491 00:19:25,269 --> 00:19:23,809 and I'm in a tiny town in West Virginia 492 00:19:27,310 --> 00:19:25,279 in the middle of a you know 200 year old 493 00:19:31,389 --> 00:19:27,320 prison like it's just like it's a real 494 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:31,399 moment and obviously the like a prisoner 495 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:33,049 in asylum those are giant buildings look 496 00:19:37,419 --> 00:19:36,169 like echoing rooms and you know it's 497 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:37,429 it's just it's more surreal than 498 00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:40,990 anything else I don't know it's it's 499 00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:43,880 it's really hard to explain especially 500 00:19:47,889 --> 00:19:45,830 when you're like me somebody who's not 501 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:47,899 necessarily a believer in the paranormal 502 00:19:51,970 --> 00:19:50,690 but who loves paranormal stories and 503 00:19:54,250 --> 00:19:51,980 loves people who do believe in the 504 00:19:56,919 --> 00:19:54,260 paranormal it's it's a you know it's 505 00:19:59,740 --> 00:19:56,929 like I'm almost invading that world with 506 00:20:01,840 --> 00:19:59,750 the same time I'm enjoying it a lot so 507 00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:01,850 again it's fun like again in my living 508 00:20:07,419 --> 00:20:04,940 room not as fun in like jail cell and 509 00:20:10,690 --> 00:20:07,429 West we didn't have tons of fun have you 510 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:10,700 heard about I've had I've had bill ha 511 00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:13,490 halt on talking about his book the 512 00:20:20,110 --> 00:20:16,700 world's most haunted house and this was 513 00:20:21,790 --> 00:20:20,120 the Bridgeport Connecticut poltergeist 514 00:20:23,410 --> 00:20:21,800 is called the lint on Lindley Street 515 00:20:28,030 --> 00:20:23,420 have you ever heard of that no it's not 516 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:28,040 it's not haunted anymore but there was 517 00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,170 so this is a you know and I know you're 518 00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:32,720 sort of on the skeptic side but this 519 00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:35,780 particular house while the young girl 520 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:40,160 was having a lot of trouble all kinds of 521 00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:42,260 people including a friend of mine Paul 522 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,350 you know saw these things happen and 523 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:47,600 we're talking about the police 524 00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:49,010 department being there the fire 525 00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,720 department and the police department and 526 00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:52,400 fire department both being there at the 527 00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,350 same time and seeing things actually 528 00:20:58,540 --> 00:20:56,720 happen like for instance the 529 00:21:00,820 --> 00:20:58,550 refrigerator lifting up and moving the 530 00:21:03,010 --> 00:21:00,830 TV you know like smashing against the 531 00:21:05,410 --> 00:21:03,020 wall all these odd odd things in a 532 00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,420 little tiny tiny house have you ever 533 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:08,000 heard about that I had no I have not 534 00:21:10,810 --> 00:21:09,530 asked you like to repeat the name of the 535 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:10,820 house because I don't I've been all over 536 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:13,610 Connecticut looking at near the Necker 537 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:15,050 house that's the one from a Haunting in 538 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:17,450 Connecticut and I've been through the 539 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:19,570 question of John Zaffis 540 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:22,940 you know infested toys collection no I 541 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:23,810 don't think I've heard of that I like 542 00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:27,770 I'd like to get my math yeah well once 543 00:21:33,490 --> 00:21:30,500 once the girls stopped having trouble in 544 00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:33,500 her life everything stopped it just like 545 00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:36,020 completely stopped so they think it was 546 00:21:41,530 --> 00:21:38,780 related somehow through her which is 547 00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:41,540 rather bizarre now I got like the the 548 00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:43,160 infield poltergeist so we're in over in 549 00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:44,660 the UK that's kind of thing same thing 550 00:21:48,610 --> 00:21:45,980 happened there was around some 551 00:21:50,530 --> 00:21:48,620 adolescent you know teens and then once 552 00:21:52,570 --> 00:21:50,540 they kind of like those they kind of 553 00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:52,580 evened out the the experience kind of 554 00:21:57,820 --> 00:21:55,760 stopped yeah that's so bizarre and and 555 00:22:00,790 --> 00:21:57,830 things like that kind of make you wonder 556 00:22:04,090 --> 00:22:00,800 you know what is going on if if 557 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:04,100 something's going on how you know how is 558 00:22:08,290 --> 00:22:05,930 it going on and what exactly is it 559 00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:08,300 because you know I've had these talks 560 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:10,070 with my son before and he says you know 561 00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:13,610 whatever it is you know something is 562 00:22:17,290 --> 00:22:14,840 definitely you know there is an 563 00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:17,300 explanation for it some type of 564 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:20,630 explanation you know even though you 565 00:22:23,890 --> 00:22:22,250 know like the refrigerator lifting off 566 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:23,900 the ground you know there's there's some 567 00:22:27,789 --> 00:22:24,850 type of 568 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:27,799 somewhere somehow it's the same thing 569 00:22:33,070 --> 00:22:31,130 with UFOs and you name it getters there 570 00:22:35,649 --> 00:22:33,080 is an explanation now I want to talk 571 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:35,659 about because I have heard about this a 572 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:39,260 grave of Martha Keyes do you want to 573 00:22:43,529 --> 00:22:42,049 tell tell about that tell the audience a 574 00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:43,539 little bit about that yeah so that 575 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:46,640 that's in Princeton Massachusetts Oh 576 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:48,529 central Massachusetts and it's like 577 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:50,570 classic cries like a ghost story that's 578 00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:53,809 you know there's a few there's quite a 579 00:22:58,510 --> 00:22:56,510 few ghost story archetypes and this is 580 00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:58,520 one of them of the you know forlorn 581 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:00,799 mother who lost her child spends her 582 00:23:03,820 --> 00:23:02,299 life looking for that child and then 583 00:23:05,019 --> 00:23:03,830 spends her afterlife looking for that 584 00:23:09,450 --> 00:23:05,029 child you know wandering through the 585 00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:09,460 woods in the case of Martha keys and and 586 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:12,860 Princeton much of it is a true story 587 00:23:17,649 --> 00:23:15,230 she was an actual person who actually 588 00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:17,659 lost one of her daughters and kind of 589 00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:20,240 you know didn't go crazy but definitely 590 00:23:24,639 --> 00:23:22,760 some deep grief around that and then 591 00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:24,649 stories stories continued after that 592 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:27,260 around you know if you go to our grave 593 00:23:31,269 --> 00:23:29,210 you hear sobbing if you're in the woods 594 00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:31,279 surrounding you know that area you can 595 00:23:34,180 --> 00:23:32,840 kind of hear her calling for her child 596 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:34,190 or you can hear that hear or see the 597 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:36,770 child itself it's actually cuz it's if 598 00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:39,610 everyone's gotten popular enough that 599 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:41,480 they've made movies about it I'm 600 00:23:44,529 --> 00:23:42,890 lifetime did a movie about it and 601 00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,539 actually filmed in the town but what I 602 00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:46,880 love about this one in particular a lot 603 00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:48,470 of ghost stories are kind of like vague 604 00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,110 and amorphous but this one her grave is 605 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:53,600 a real thing it's a real artifact that 606 00:23:57,340 --> 00:23:55,010 you could literally go today or tonight 607 00:23:59,320 --> 00:23:57,350 you could jump in your car and drive 608 00:24:00,909 --> 00:23:59,330 probably two or three hours for you but 609 00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:00,919 you drive down to this grave and see 610 00:24:05,529 --> 00:24:03,470 Martha Keyes grave and that's kind of 611 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:05,539 like that physical like foothold is what 612 00:24:09,460 --> 00:24:07,100 really grabs me if it's just like a 613 00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:09,470 folklore without any kind of tether it's 614 00:24:13,899 --> 00:24:11,480 not as interesting to me the second 615 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:13,909 you're like oh and there's a grape or 616 00:24:16,690 --> 00:24:15,350 there's the house what happened or 617 00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,700 there's the hill where it happened 618 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:18,799 suddenly that gives it much more like a 619 00:24:22,659 --> 00:24:20,750 body to me and I could want to go see 620 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:22,669 and like at least see the grave and give 621 00:24:25,149 --> 00:24:24,770 us that story like stronger residents 622 00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:25,159 for me 623 00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:27,260 so people struggle the people have 624 00:24:32,289 --> 00:24:29,929 actually heard things do you know like 625 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:32,299 actually recently if they're saying they 626 00:24:38,259 --> 00:24:35,450 hear heard the cry for Lucy and the 627 00:24:40,169 --> 00:24:38,269 sobbing and it's it's really hard to do 628 00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:40,179 these days especially the internet 629 00:24:44,829 --> 00:24:42,529 because it just kind of replicates the 630 00:24:47,829 --> 00:24:44,839 story ad infinitum ad infinitum 631 00:24:49,449 --> 00:24:47,839 yeah most most the story you know dates 632 00:24:51,459 --> 00:24:49,459 back decades as far as hearing her 633 00:24:53,769 --> 00:24:51,469 scream Lucy in the woods or you know 634 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:53,779 there's the story of there's a few 635 00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:55,129 stairs of ski because ski mountain 636 00:24:58,719 --> 00:24:57,049 nearby and I've liked people working on 637 00:25:01,209 --> 00:24:58,729 the mountain seeing like it spread 638 00:25:04,479 --> 00:25:01,219 footprints of a child in the snow that 639 00:25:06,009 --> 00:25:04,489 just ended those are all old stories I 640 00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:06,019 don't know very many modern stories have 641 00:25:10,719 --> 00:25:09,049 been happening but again you know once 642 00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:10,729 you read that story you can replicate 643 00:25:14,979 --> 00:25:12,289 itself across the internet and really 644 00:25:16,419 --> 00:25:14,989 fast so it's more of a classic story and 645 00:25:17,709 --> 00:25:16,429 there's been a you seem like the woman 646 00:25:19,509 --> 00:25:17,719 and the woman in whites I think that's 647 00:25:20,619 --> 00:25:19,519 you know based in New York there's 648 00:25:23,049 --> 00:25:20,629 another kind of those stories of the 649 00:25:25,419 --> 00:25:23,059 mother looking for the child after her 650 00:25:27,819 --> 00:25:25,429 death so it's a classic archetype with a 651 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:27,829 great kind of foothold a great presence 652 00:25:31,869 --> 00:25:29,089 like I love it when the COS story is 653 00:25:34,509 --> 00:25:31,879 really grounded in a location in a in a 654 00:25:36,609 --> 00:25:34,519 town in the city it just gives it more 655 00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:36,619 and I just love it that much more for 656 00:25:42,369 --> 00:25:39,049 some reason but it's more like you know 657 00:25:46,499 --> 00:25:42,379 decades of around on that particular 658 00:25:50,619 --> 00:25:46,509 site for you know decades at least now 659 00:25:53,379 --> 00:25:50,629 you said earlier that you were and you 660 00:25:54,819 --> 00:25:53,389 were in a place a planned event with 661 00:25:58,509 --> 00:25:54,829 people with equipment and stuff like 662 00:26:03,009 --> 00:25:58,519 that you know it's kind of like the 663 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:03,019 ghost shows I'm not really sure if 664 00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:05,049 anything happens it's so fleeting and 665 00:26:09,329 --> 00:26:07,279 again you know I bring up the topic of 666 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:09,339 UFOs you know it's kind of like that 667 00:26:13,869 --> 00:26:12,529 they're in and out and in I don't even 668 00:26:16,690 --> 00:26:13,879 watch any of the ghost shows I have 669 00:26:18,009 --> 00:26:16,700 watched once or twice and I I just think 670 00:26:19,389 --> 00:26:18,019 oh you know they're actually think 671 00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:19,399 they're gonna be there and something's 672 00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:21,529 gonna happen because they're there you 673 00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:23,929 know so I think it's a lot of it is I 674 00:26:34,209 --> 00:26:32,199 like you said like we have scientists 675 00:26:37,299 --> 00:26:34,219 lifting the jungle for 20 years looking 676 00:26:40,959 --> 00:26:37,309 for a two-inch long salamander it takes 677 00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:40,969 that long to find it so you know just I 678 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:43,070 guess it depends on how how widespread 679 00:26:48,369 --> 00:26:45,950 you think spectral phenomena is this is 680 00:26:49,509 --> 00:26:48,379 it as common as rain is it that common 681 00:26:52,570 --> 00:26:49,519 like anytime you go into a haunted house 682 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:52,580 you'll see it or is it you know rare 683 00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:55,610 leading and again I don't have very many 684 00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:57,200 ideas on this but it just kind of you 685 00:27:01,240 --> 00:26:58,880 have to like have a certain set of 686 00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:01,250 assumptions like I know people who go 687 00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,960 out and find ghosts every single time 688 00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:04,880 anywhere they go anywhere wherever they 689 00:27:08,019 --> 00:27:06,140 go they find a ghost every single time 690 00:27:11,139 --> 00:27:08,029 there's me who's been everywhere 691 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:11,149 spooky country almost and I've never had 692 00:27:15,509 --> 00:27:12,890 a single like you know tap on my 693 00:27:19,419 --> 00:27:15,519 shoulder or sound or anything like that 694 00:27:22,779 --> 00:27:19,429 I I'm like blind to my sixth sense or 695 00:27:24,490 --> 00:27:22,789 whatever it is but yeah so it just 696 00:27:25,899 --> 00:27:24,500 depends like what what a person's 697 00:27:27,220 --> 00:27:25,909 assumptions about the spectral really 698 00:27:29,049 --> 00:27:27,230 are which they're get really hashed out 699 00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:29,059 on the shows are a good example of them 700 00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:30,260 just kind of it's a show you know 701 00:27:32,409 --> 00:27:31,279 they're just trying to like make you 702 00:27:34,539 --> 00:27:32,419 happy for 45 minutes 703 00:27:37,180 --> 00:27:34,549 yeah or make it for 45 minutes it's not 704 00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:37,190 really like you know they're not trying 705 00:27:43,180 --> 00:27:39,440 to like really find anything yeah now I 706 00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:43,190 I had a friend who was the manager of 707 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:46,580 the Mount Washington Hotel and you've 708 00:27:52,629 --> 00:27:49,460 heard about that right oh yeah yeah 709 00:27:57,460 --> 00:27:52,639 that's great he was the manager back in 710 00:27:58,769 --> 00:27:57,470 the 1970s and he told he told me I did 711 00:28:01,120 --> 00:27:58,779 you know this was just in conversation 712 00:28:03,370 --> 00:28:01,130 he was talking about being the manager 713 00:28:07,149 --> 00:28:03,380 and you know what a trying job it was 714 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:07,159 but he loved it and and then all of a 715 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:09,200 sudden he said yeah you know the place 716 00:28:14,350 --> 00:28:12,710 is haunted and you know I said what what 717 00:28:15,549 --> 00:28:14,360 do you mean haunted and he was telling 718 00:28:17,889 --> 00:28:15,559 me yeah there's the place is definitely 719 00:28:20,259 --> 00:28:17,899 haunted he says I've seen I've seen a 720 00:28:25,509 --> 00:28:20,269 figure coming down the stairs and I 721 00:28:27,310 --> 00:28:25,519 think there's there's still stuff that 722 00:28:30,009 --> 00:28:27,320 is going on there people are claiming 723 00:28:31,810 --> 00:28:30,019 things are like moving around on racks 724 00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:31,820 and things like that you know in the in 725 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:34,220 the clothing store downstairs and all 726 00:28:37,419 --> 00:28:35,690 kinds of weird stuff supposed to 727 00:28:39,159 --> 00:28:37,429 happening well that place hasn't look 728 00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,169 that place has a complete you know The 729 00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:41,120 Shining vibe I mean it's a giant old 730 00:28:45,299 --> 00:28:43,429 fashioned 19th century hotel and I'm on 731 00:28:49,539 --> 00:28:45,309 the mountain yeah the classic you know 732 00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:49,549 that has a massive like ski industry so 733 00:28:52,419 --> 00:28:51,110 when it snows you know and the snows 734 00:28:55,180 --> 00:28:52,429 pile up it's still open and still 735 00:28:56,350 --> 00:28:55,190 operating it's still ice cool it's a 736 00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:56,360 great place but those kind of people 737 00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,190 like your friend really intrigued me so 738 00:29:02,409 --> 00:28:59,840 I kind of understand 739 00:29:04,629 --> 00:29:02,419 I had a paranormal experience and now 740 00:29:05,529 --> 00:29:04,639 I'm going to go find more the people 741 00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:05,539 that kind of have one 742 00:29:09,009 --> 00:29:07,580 then just kind of go about life yes he's 743 00:29:11,349 --> 00:29:09,019 gonna file it away and they go it that's 744 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:11,359 what I had what I'll move on and go to 745 00:29:16,269 --> 00:29:14,690 collate whatever files and stuff those 746 00:29:17,739 --> 00:29:16,279 people are really fascinating to me they 747 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:17,749 just kind of like accept it and move on 748 00:29:23,349 --> 00:29:20,330 and aren't at all like changed by it all 749 00:29:26,229 --> 00:29:23,359 yeah I'd be I'd be very happy to connect 750 00:29:29,889 --> 00:29:26,239 you if you ever want to talk to him yes 751 00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:29,899 for you love to so all right now going 752 00:29:34,479 --> 00:29:32,960 back to your books I of course you know 753 00:29:35,889 --> 00:29:34,489 we're halfway into the show here we 754 00:29:38,289 --> 00:29:35,899 haven't talked about your your book 755 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:38,299 coming out but I do want to talk prior 756 00:29:41,950 --> 00:29:40,129 to that about a season of the witch 757 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:41,960 because we just went through you know 758 00:29:47,499 --> 00:29:43,970 Halloween and Halloween is big for you 759 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:47,509 right huge huge I'm Leben sometimes I 760 00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:48,769 think I only live through the other 761 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:54,559 three seasons I know I tried I tried to 762 00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:56,570 get me as a season I tried to get you on 763 00:30:01,839 --> 00:29:58,159 the show prior to Halloween you said 764 00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:01,849 that no I'm too busy and that's true and 765 00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:03,950 it's not even busy with like big things 766 00:30:07,899 --> 00:30:05,929 like I almost every single minute of 767 00:30:10,479 --> 00:30:07,909 September and October is planned out for 768 00:30:12,969 --> 00:30:10,489 me whether it's you know going places or 769 00:30:15,729 --> 00:30:12,979 seeing things or you know whatever it is 770 00:30:17,739 --> 00:30:15,739 i blog it i post content every single 771 00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:17,749 day yeah various except for knocked over 772 00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:19,129 because again I celebrated the season 773 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:21,919 not as a day holiday it's just like a 774 00:30:24,330 --> 00:30:23,809 you know suddenly everything seems right 775 00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:24,340 with the world 776 00:30:32,129 --> 00:30:28,070 around and you spent some time down in 777 00:30:34,749 --> 00:30:32,139 Salem Mass to write that that book which 778 00:30:37,469 --> 00:30:34,759 it yeah I've been down there it's pretty 779 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:37,479 crazy during Halloween isn't it oh it's 780 00:30:43,719 --> 00:30:40,210 fantastically crazy so for that book my 781 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:43,729 the conceit was I would move my family 782 00:30:48,369 --> 00:30:46,220 my wife and two daughters to downtown 783 00:30:51,009 --> 00:30:48,379 Salem so like literally right downtown 784 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:51,019 smell the witches and see the masculine 785 00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:53,690 Bible of your windows for all luck over 786 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:55,129 so they celebrate haunted happening so 787 00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,090 they you celebrate a month-long 788 00:31:01,570 --> 00:30:58,159 Halloween season so October first the 789 00:31:04,330 --> 00:31:01,580 banners go up and everything wiki and 790 00:31:05,589 --> 00:31:04,340 weird starts happening these days having 791 00:31:08,379 --> 00:31:05,599 September but the banners don't go to 792 00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:08,389 October and I was for those 31 days I 793 00:31:15,249 --> 00:31:11,840 you know visited every single attraction 794 00:31:17,529 --> 00:31:15,259 every single historic location in the 795 00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:17,539 area I interviewed about 40 people 796 00:31:23,139 --> 00:31:18,710 everybody from the 797 00:31:24,909 --> 00:31:23,149 err to the street performers to witches 798 00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:24,919 the tired I had an entire chapter where 799 00:31:28,299 --> 00:31:26,480 I talked to you know you know half a 800 00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:28,309 dozen witches and had my what I would do 801 00:31:32,139 --> 00:31:28,820 to them 802 00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:32,149 whatever I had my fortune read in like a 803 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:34,669 dozen different ways and just trying to 804 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:36,529 figure out like this weirdness that is 805 00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:38,809 salem in this in its weirdest time of 806 00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:40,460 the year and it's a very rich story 807 00:31:45,789 --> 00:31:42,620 obviously the 1692 story kicked it all 808 00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:45,799 off but it's only 1692 is really only a 809 00:31:51,460 --> 00:31:49,700 fraction of why salem is weird today 810 00:31:55,450 --> 00:31:51,470 definitely the inciting incident but 811 00:31:59,080 --> 00:31:55,460 today it's it's like the halloween 812 00:32:01,539 --> 00:31:59,090 capital it's like the monster capital it 813 00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,549 the word which is like a multiple edged 814 00:32:04,029 --> 00:32:02,960 sword because it means about four or 815 00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,039 five different things in the city 816 00:32:09,310 --> 00:32:06,559 there's constant conflicts about its 817 00:32:11,049 --> 00:32:09,320 about its identity about when it stands 818 00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,059 for about whether it's treating its 819 00:32:16,269 --> 00:32:13,760 history right or wrong or if it's cheesy 820 00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:16,279 or not cheesy and it's just a fad and 821 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:17,950 it's a cool city at the end of the day 822 00:32:23,019 --> 00:32:20,690 great restaurants cool like colonial 823 00:32:25,630 --> 00:32:23,029 history yeah you know surprising things 824 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:25,640 about it it's I came out of that city I 825 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:27,289 always kind of dug Salem that's a 826 00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:28,610 Halloween destination but after that 827 00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,190 book I came out loving it as a city and 828 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:33,679 almost almost you know we all can we 829 00:32:37,510 --> 00:32:35,090 consider moving there like man this is a 830 00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:37,520 great city we should move there so we 831 00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:39,049 got that close to it I still love a 832 00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:40,340 place I love it I go back to whatever 833 00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:41,919 you know multiple times a year 834 00:32:51,580 --> 00:32:47,840 yeah the witch trials of 1692 I mean it 835 00:32:56,049 --> 00:32:51,590 is so strange I actually had a book from 836 00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,059 that which was very very collectible at 837 00:33:01,539 --> 00:32:58,159 one time that was out of Portsmouth New 838 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:01,549 Hampshire in a home but you know that 839 00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:03,860 whole thing with the the witch trials 840 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:07,279 it's just so hard to believe how many 841 00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:09,110 were actually burned at the stake it was 842 00:33:14,289 --> 00:33:12,020 just a few right so here's the thing 843 00:33:17,049 --> 00:33:14,299 nobody was burning the stakes in the 844 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:17,059 u.s. though the European witch which 845 00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,330 kind of hunt in the u.s. they were 846 00:33:26,730 --> 00:33:23,360 mostly hung right okay that's right all 847 00:33:29,529 --> 00:33:26,740 right Robert that's hang and in Salem 848 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:29,539 nineteen witches were convicted 849 00:33:36,639 --> 00:33:32,450 male-to-female they were hanged I think 850 00:33:40,330 --> 00:33:36,649 dog who earlier and then there was a 851 00:33:42,129 --> 00:33:40,340 20th victim who wouldn't confess so they 852 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:42,139 pressed him to definitely put giant 853 00:33:45,849 --> 00:33:43,850 rocks on his chest trying to make him 854 00:33:46,749 --> 00:33:45,859 confess and he wouldn't confess so the 855 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:46,759 rocks just killed him 856 00:33:50,649 --> 00:33:48,710 and there were who knows how many who 857 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:50,659 died in the prisons awaiting trial 858 00:33:54,999 --> 00:33:52,730 before that whole mess was cleared up so 859 00:33:58,570 --> 00:33:55,009 it actually wasn't the largest witch 860 00:34:00,999 --> 00:33:58,580 trial in the world or the first or the 861 00:34:03,849 --> 00:34:01,009 last in the country but it for some 862 00:34:06,009 --> 00:34:03,859 reason for for complicated reasons it's 863 00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:06,019 become you know which city out of all 864 00:34:10,450 --> 00:34:07,519 the cities on the planet that have 865 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:10,460 better calls for that it you know so 866 00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:12,530 Boston think Boston for instance pained 867 00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:14,510 its last which I think three years 868 00:34:18,909 --> 00:34:17,119 before the first witch in Salem Lehane 869 00:34:21,609 --> 00:34:18,919 so Boston I kind of already gotten over 870 00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:21,619 itself as far as which babies go right 871 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,720 the first witch in America hang was in 872 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:26,240 Connecticut in Hartford so and then 873 00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:27,530 after the witch trials it happened I 874 00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:28,609 mean it so happening today it's 875 00:34:32,859 --> 00:34:30,950 happening today and some of the more in 876 00:34:34,899 --> 00:34:32,869 the more underdeveloped areas of the 877 00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:34,909 world we're going to happen so it's just 878 00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:39,440 a constant kind of thing we do as human 879 00:34:45,069 --> 00:34:42,020 beings we just you know we get really 880 00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,079 superstitious and mad and murderous I 881 00:34:48,970 --> 00:34:47,119 think that might still happening why 882 00:34:51,549 --> 00:34:48,980 it's not just like some embarrassing 883 00:34:52,809 --> 00:34:51,559 chapter of our past but you know 884 00:34:53,770 --> 00:34:52,819 everybody's going through every 885 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:53,780 country's going through it at some point 886 00:34:58,900 --> 00:34:56,450 or another well you know you just wonder 887 00:35:01,690 --> 00:34:58,910 what spawned something like that in the 888 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:01,700 beginning and the rumors and how 889 00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:04,010 helpless these poor people must have 890 00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:07,790 felt yeah you know how can you defend 891 00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:11,359 yourself to on a title of being you know 892 00:35:16,329 --> 00:35:14,420 witchery how can you say they couldn't 893 00:35:19,059 --> 00:35:16,339 it couldn't there's nothing they could 894 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:19,069 do the system was after them the 895 00:35:24,609 --> 00:35:21,650 authority was after them the populace 896 00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:24,619 was active them it was it's really sad 897 00:35:28,569 --> 00:35:26,750 it's easy now for Daenerys later to kind 898 00:35:30,490 --> 00:35:28,579 of like box it into history and I do it 899 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:30,500 all the time obviously but what you 900 00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:31,730 start like breaking it down as the 901 00:35:35,859 --> 00:35:34,220 individuals and feeling that powerless 902 00:35:36,579 --> 00:35:35,869 like I meant empathizing feeling that 903 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:36,589 powerlessness 904 00:35:42,910 --> 00:35:39,440 it is and knowing that like that's just 905 00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:42,920 one of a million breeds of powerlessness 906 00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:45,200 that we do in this in the world yeah it 907 00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:46,960 is definite 908 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:50,720 yeah yeah yeah it's strange things we've 909 00:35:58,690 --> 00:35:54,530 gone through as a society and so let's 910 00:36:04,870 --> 00:35:58,700 talk about your your new book death and 911 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:04,880 Douglas now now you this is a this is a 912 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:07,850 kids book is it it is so it's my first 913 00:36:14,170 --> 00:36:10,850 ever fiction out of you know my book 914 00:36:15,099 --> 00:36:14,180 career is about 10 years old now my 915 00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:15,109 writing career is a little over than 916 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:16,609 that but my book careers 10 years old 917 00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:18,770 all of my books up to death notes have 918 00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:21,160 been nonfiction first-person travelogues 919 00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:25,280 definite like this is fiction novel for 920 00:36:30,430 --> 00:36:27,550 middle grades so I think the the 921 00:36:33,130 --> 00:36:30,440 technical audience is like 7 through 14 922 00:36:34,859 --> 00:36:33,140 or it changes depending on what what a 923 00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:34,869 person's definition of middle grade is 924 00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:37,580 so it's not why a it's not young it's 925 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:39,470 not young adults technically but it's 926 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:40,970 also not children's literature it's not 927 00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:43,310 preteen preschool or board books this is 928 00:36:53,410 --> 00:36:51,680 a novel it's about a boy who lives in a 929 00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:53,420 New England funeral home because he 930 00:36:58,330 --> 00:36:55,730 lives there because his family runs it 931 00:37:00,010 --> 00:36:58,340 and his you know they live in the house 932 00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:00,020 that they work they work out of the home 933 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:02,030 basically stuff you know I was there he 934 00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:04,310 lives there is bedrooms like two floors 935 00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:06,680 above the mortuary you spend these 936 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:07,790 grown-up that you know playing 937 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:09,670 hide-and-seek in the coffin showroom and 938 00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:12,770 local cemeteries his playground and he's 939 00:37:16,690 --> 00:37:15,440 a boy he's a strange boy that kind of is 940 00:37:18,849 --> 00:37:16,700 really comfortable with death because 941 00:37:20,770 --> 00:37:18,859 you grow up in the environment and gets 942 00:37:26,260 --> 00:37:20,780 gets death better than most adults do 943 00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:26,270 it's but then the idea is that suddenly 944 00:37:30,490 --> 00:37:28,609 the basement is De Smet the more the 945 00:37:33,609 --> 00:37:30,500 mortuary starts filling with murder 946 00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:33,619 victims which completely kind of wrecks 947 00:37:37,570 --> 00:37:34,910 him up a little bit yes it's suddenly 948 00:37:39,820 --> 00:37:37,580 like his entire like life and family's 949 00:37:41,830 --> 00:37:39,830 wrapped up in you comforting you know 950 00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,840 mourners and dealing with the dead but 951 00:37:45,730 --> 00:37:43,520 now we have what is basically an 952 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:45,740 unnatural death murder so we get to 953 00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:47,450 figure that out in his hook spike your 954 00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:49,070 life at the same time then when the 955 00:37:52,660 --> 00:37:50,270 strings decide they want to solve this 956 00:37:54,099 --> 00:37:52,670 mystery of who's killing these people so 957 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:54,109 it's a mystery book it's a kind of a 958 00:37:58,540 --> 00:37:56,210 horror book 959 00:38:00,820 --> 00:37:58,550 but it's better you know middle graders 960 00:38:03,970 --> 00:38:00,830 and anybody who digs a genre I'm a big 961 00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:03,980 fan of kind of middle grade spooky stuff 962 00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:05,030 Ray Bradbury 963 00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:07,100 and a lot of Neil Gaiman does that too 964 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:09,830 like I love that genre so much so I 965 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:11,090 guess that's why my first book kind of 966 00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:13,370 came out in that genre all right well I 967 00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:20,270 hope it goes well for you yeah so and on 968 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:22,700 your trap back to your travel logs on 969 00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:24,890 the different places you've been and 970 00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:27,230 explored and all that and the people 971 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:29,780 you've talked to you mentioned about you 972 00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:32,570 know witnesses have you talked to some 973 00:38:37,870 --> 00:38:36,200 people that have you know come up with 974 00:38:40,330 --> 00:38:37,880 some really interesting stories about 975 00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:40,340 let's say haunted house or something 976 00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:43,880 like that yeah I come across them pretty 977 00:38:46,810 --> 00:38:44,540 regularly 978 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:46,820 I mentioned John Zaffis he's an 979 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:49,610 interesting guy he's the nephew of the 980 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:53,090 Warrens and Lorraine who are both famous 981 00:38:58,720 --> 00:38:56,050 and notorious for basically making I 982 00:39:00,160 --> 00:38:58,730 don't know they were let they're kind of 983 00:39:03,580 --> 00:39:00,170 legendary for what they've done as far 984 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:03,590 as making you know ghost hunting and you 985 00:39:08,770 --> 00:39:07,250 know demon hunting a thing like they're 986 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:08,780 they're pretty pretty much like the 987 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:10,490 founding fathers of the founding fathers 988 00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:14,690 of that so he had a lot of cool stories 989 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:16,190 he was involved and you know some of 990 00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:17,690 their some of the more famous cases he 991 00:39:21,130 --> 00:39:19,910 had a basement full of just artifacts 992 00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:21,140 that he said were haunted ever sent to 993 00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:23,150 him I have friends who have had 994 00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:25,550 experiences couple of psychic friends I 995 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:27,470 like I said I spent a lot of time with 996 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:29,570 the witches in Salem I went for a while 997 00:39:31,450 --> 00:39:30,290 to Lilydale 998 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:31,460 New York you thought what that place 999 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:33,890 know so Lily Belle New York is 1000 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:35,510 interesting it started out as a 1001 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:38,330 spiritualist commune and today if you go 1002 00:39:43,090 --> 00:39:40,730 there it's a community pretty much 1003 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:43,100 everybody who lives there is a medium of 1004 00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:44,930 some sort so it's like this little 1005 00:39:50,410 --> 00:39:48,800 idyllic town close on the on the western 1006 00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:50,420 coast of New York near the Great Lakes 1007 00:39:55,150 --> 00:39:52,910 and you go in there there's all the 1008 00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,160 houses have like little like placards on 1009 00:39:58,570 --> 00:39:56,720 them saying you know who this who the 1010 00:40:00,520 --> 00:39:58,580 medium is and like what our hours are 1011 00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:00,530 and since the history the place goes 1012 00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:03,020 back in 150 200 years but today you can 1013 00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:05,540 go there and get a reading and it's to 1014 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:09,230 stop and go get get a you know gonna 1015 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:11,090 set up an appointment to get one so I 1016 00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:12,890 definitely talk to a lot of people with 1017 00:40:17,770 --> 00:40:14,300 experiences and a lot of people you know 1018 00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:17,780 with those beliefs and I find it 1019 00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:19,100 fascinating I've given talks at ghost 1020 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:20,390 hunters I've done ghost hunts with 1021 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:23,810 people and just a fascinating thing for 1022 00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:27,110 me I think uh hon the end Wow 1023 00:40:31,150 --> 00:40:29,480 now when you talked about the Warrens 1024 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:31,160 now the Warrens actually were in that 1025 00:40:35,590 --> 00:40:33,010 house I was talking about earlier in 1026 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:35,600 Bridgeport Connecticut they were I was 1027 00:40:39,070 --> 00:40:37,310 one of one of their cases 1028 00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:39,080 yeah they well they were had some type 1029 00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:41,120 of involvement there and like you said 1030 00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,250 you know they were called in and a whole 1031 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:45,680 bunch of different things now back to 1032 00:40:53,290 --> 00:40:50,450 what do you think about psychics do you 1033 00:40:59,410 --> 00:40:53,300 think there's any weight to some of what 1034 00:41:01,930 --> 00:40:59,420 happens with them so so I was taking the 1035 00:41:03,850 --> 00:41:01,940 only the the stupid thing about being a 1036 00:41:06,850 --> 00:41:03,860 human being is I can only really speak 1037 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:06,860 to my experience yeah and I have just 1038 00:41:17,650 --> 00:41:11,170 never seen any of it work out like I 1039 00:41:19,330 --> 00:41:17,660 have seen it just doesn't seem to I even 1040 00:41:21,370 --> 00:41:19,340 like again when I went it was in Salem 1041 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:21,380 and I probably had I did it I did like 1042 00:41:27,070 --> 00:41:24,290 tarot cards and rune readings and aura 1043 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:27,080 readings and tea leaf readings I did 1044 00:41:32,050 --> 00:41:30,050 palm readings I did perfect every 1045 00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,060 reading except for crystal ball readings 1046 00:41:38,250 --> 00:41:34,880 in there and they were always vague 1047 00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:38,260 always you know not super specific 1048 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:39,920 sometimes they're right sometimes 1049 00:41:45,370 --> 00:41:42,170 they're right sometimes are wrong it 1050 00:41:47,890 --> 00:41:45,380 seemed really random it just feels like 1051 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:47,900 to me the psychic power would have more 1052 00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:51,290 an effect on the world in general like 1053 00:41:56,590 --> 00:41:53,110 more than scientists or mathematicians 1054 00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:56,600 or politicians or anybody that has a 1055 00:42:01,870 --> 00:41:59,530 measurable effect on the core society 1056 00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:01,880 but psychics don't seem to they seem 1057 00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,160 that kind of rise and fall as far as you 1058 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:07,520 know how society accepts them how they 1059 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:10,250 don't but their impact is always pretty 1060 00:42:16,330 --> 00:42:13,330 minimal on kind of the ebb and flow of 1061 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:16,340 you know history and the present and 1062 00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:18,050 stuff right I feel like if there were 1063 00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:19,430 enough psychics in the u.s. they would 1064 00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:22,160 have more of an impact on the world than 1065 00:42:28,299 --> 00:42:26,240 any lobbying group in politics you know 1066 00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:28,309 but it just doesn't happen that way so 1067 00:42:32,499 --> 00:42:30,710 it but doesn't mean it's not true that's 1068 00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:32,509 not all of evidence it's not true it 1069 00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:36,109 just feels like a whole in the idea of 1070 00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:40,569 it I am fascinated by some of the police 1071 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:43,640 missings persons missing-persons cases 1072 00:42:48,910 --> 00:42:46,130 that have been solved right down to 1073 00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:48,920 exactly where you know the body would be 1074 00:42:52,799 --> 00:42:50,720 it's stuff like that it's amazing I 1075 00:42:57,220 --> 00:42:52,809 would love to talk to someone 1076 00:42:58,809 --> 00:42:57,230 yeah a little bit about that Oh her 1077 00:43:00,670 --> 00:42:58,819 name's escapes me though the the witch 1078 00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:00,680 that pretty much put modern-day witches 1079 00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,220 in Salem Laurie most famous name in my 1080 00:43:10,749 --> 00:43:09,440 head anyway she she was involved in that 1081 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:10,759 a lot and she actually was on unsolved 1082 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:12,410 mysteries for a couple of cases and I 1083 00:43:15,789 --> 00:43:13,670 talk about people a few people that were 1084 00:43:18,249 --> 00:43:15,799 in that show then saw this with her and 1085 00:43:19,690 --> 00:43:18,259 there's always like there's always 1086 00:43:22,299 --> 00:43:19,700 levels to what's happening like there 1087 00:43:23,950 --> 00:43:22,309 was level of what she said and she had 1088 00:43:25,150 --> 00:43:23,960 followers I kind of believed that but 1089 00:43:26,259 --> 00:43:25,160 then other people you talk to you kind 1090 00:43:28,539 --> 00:43:26,269 of said no it's a different perspective 1091 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:28,549 on it again you put six people in a room 1092 00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,650 and an event happens six people will 1093 00:43:35,049 --> 00:43:32,960 have six widely varying kind of 1094 00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:35,059 interpretations of it yeah so again it's 1095 00:43:40,569 --> 00:43:38,720 not I mean still the police dog is still 1096 00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:40,579 more reliable than the police psychic 1097 00:43:45,579 --> 00:43:43,220 once the stats come down to it so it's 1098 00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:45,589 like it just again these two have it 1099 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:47,359 should be more impactful on the world 1100 00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:50,210 for it to be you know as widespread as 1101 00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:51,380 people think of this either it's much 1102 00:43:55,299 --> 00:43:53,150 more niche than people believe it is 1103 00:43:58,930 --> 00:43:55,309 like there's very much fewer psychics 1104 00:44:01,180 --> 00:43:58,940 than people admit or you know it's it's 1105 00:44:02,890 --> 00:44:01,190 not as widespread it but again we don't 1106 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:02,900 ever really do those gonna study stupid 1107 00:44:06,789 --> 00:44:05,690 it we get spiritualism we go in and out 1108 00:44:08,410 --> 00:44:06,799 of them like how we kind of test 1109 00:44:09,819 --> 00:44:08,420 spiritualism and right now we're not 1110 00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:09,829 really testing at all we're kind of like 1111 00:44:15,759 --> 00:44:13,940 it's more more fringe reason now have 1112 00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:15,769 you ever have you ever gone through the 1113 00:44:20,859 --> 00:44:17,990 Bridgewater triangle looking for 1114 00:44:22,930 --> 00:44:20,869 anything I am I've been through there 1115 00:44:24,339 --> 00:44:22,940 through this it's obviously it's a big 1116 00:44:25,870 --> 00:44:24,349 area I've never actually hiding I'm 1117 00:44:28,359 --> 00:44:25,880 always want to just hike like the main 1118 00:44:30,190 --> 00:44:28,369 pathway through that area but yeah I've 1119 00:44:32,380 --> 00:44:30,200 been around there it's hard because 1120 00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:32,390 there's no like there's no like real 1121 00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:33,680 physical markers there's no like 1122 00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,400 memorials or no like real like 1123 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:36,960 it's just a general area with a lot of 1124 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:38,730 cool stories yeah yeah definitely it's 1125 00:44:43,279 --> 00:44:41,970 one place right right yeah and the 1126 00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,289 finicky trial - I think there's one out 1127 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:45,599 in Vermont - that's like it's alive is 1128 00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:48,450 it really yeah yeah we're having just a 1129 00:44:51,410 --> 00:44:49,799 little bit of static I don't know if 1130 00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:51,420 it's if you have a microphone you just 1131 00:45:03,559 --> 00:44:57,440 moved or anything no I definitely like 1132 00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,569 okay now what about we had someone on in 1133 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:05,119 the chat room just a minute ago that 1134 00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:07,890 does a lot of stuff with Bigfoot is that 1135 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:09,720 something you've ever looked into at all 1136 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:12,930 I love Bigfoot I love Bigfoot stories I 1137 00:45:18,260 --> 00:45:14,910 love everything it's another thing that 1138 00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,270 we're you know I love the stories I like 1139 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:21,119 belief is irrelevant to me at that point 1140 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:23,490 love so I've been to like Whitehall 1141 00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:25,170 which has like literally the town 1142 00:45:29,269 --> 00:45:27,510 Whitehall New York has a statue of 1143 00:45:31,220 --> 00:45:29,279 Bigfoots in the town square 1144 00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:31,230 Wow a lot of the a lot of the businesses 1145 00:45:34,220 --> 00:45:32,609 in Whitehall New York are themed the 1146 00:45:36,019 --> 00:45:34,230 bigfoot-like there's a local golf course 1147 00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:36,029 it has it there's a local liquor store 1148 00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:38,760 that has a big metal sculpture of 1149 00:45:45,049 --> 00:45:41,849 Bigfoots I've been out to the west the 1150 00:45:47,329 --> 00:45:45,059 west coast I think Washington is a giant 1151 00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:47,339 like three-story tall tower two stories 1152 00:45:52,910 --> 00:45:51,150 tall concrete Bigfoot I love the idea of 1153 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:52,920 Bigfoot all right whether I believe in 1154 00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,450 them again it could irrelevant to me 1155 00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:56,640 like it would only be relevant to me if 1156 00:46:02,059 --> 00:45:59,099 I was alone in the forest on the 1157 00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:02,069 northwest but as a story I find it so 1158 00:46:07,010 --> 00:46:04,380 good such a great idea for a story like 1159 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:07,020 if if people didn't believe that story I 1160 00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,490 would be bummed so good but there's some 1161 00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:14,160 giant hominid race kind of hidden in the 1162 00:46:19,069 --> 00:46:16,700 forests in the mountains of the world is 1163 00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:19,079 if that didn't exist I would need 1164 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:20,940 somebody to invent it really fast yeah 1165 00:46:25,549 --> 00:46:22,650 well you know you hear it everywhere I 1166 00:46:27,620 --> 00:46:25,559 mean it doesn't matter what country they 1167 00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:27,630 it seems like they've seen something 1168 00:46:35,779 --> 00:46:30,950 everywhere and then the patterson-gimlin 1169 00:46:37,460 --> 00:46:35,789 film is you know with all people trying 1170 00:46:39,620 --> 00:46:37,470 to debunk that and working on it all 1171 00:46:41,809 --> 00:46:39,630 this time they still can't you know the 1172 00:46:43,339 --> 00:46:41,819 either casts I have a cast of that 1173 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:43,349 footprint actually I'm looking at it 1174 00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:44,970 right now I don't have it all behind 1175 00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:46,710 this off camera but I thought I have a 1176 00:46:48,859 --> 00:46:47,910 cast of that footprint that I bought 1177 00:46:50,839 --> 00:46:48,869 from the 1178 00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:50,849 cryptozoology museum over and actually 1179 00:46:54,499 --> 00:46:52,680 mate over in your state oh yeah yeah 1180 00:46:56,089 --> 00:46:54,509 yeah I'm Portland Maine yeah that's a 1181 00:46:57,739 --> 00:46:56,099 great play Loren Coleman runs that place 1182 00:46:59,450 --> 00:46:57,749 I love that place since I think that I 1183 00:47:01,849 --> 00:46:59,460 go there probably once a year I should 1184 00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:01,859 do a show there because he's that's only 1185 00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:04,319 40 minutes drive for me oh you should 1186 00:47:07,099 --> 00:47:05,670 there's so many he has so many goods 1187 00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:07,109 obviously he's been like kind of a voice 1188 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:09,720 of cryptozoology for a long time and so 1189 00:47:13,489 --> 00:47:11,490 he has great stories the museum itself 1190 00:47:16,970 --> 00:47:13,499 is really cool and like again even as a 1191 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:16,980 not really kind of believer guy I love 1192 00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:18,690 that place I would you know I support it 1193 00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:23,400 yeah yeah yeah so it is it is amazing 1194 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:26,940 that it's just another one of those 1195 00:47:31,339 --> 00:47:29,130 things you know that when people talk 1196 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:31,349 about Bigfoot they say well how come no 1197 00:47:35,809 --> 00:47:33,720 one's ever found you know bones or or 1198 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:35,819 how come no one's ever found you know 1199 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:38,490 one sleeping or you know on and on and 1200 00:47:43,249 --> 00:47:40,170 on I don't know what the answer is and I 1201 00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:43,259 know there was some DNA research done 1202 00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:46,440 and on some you know some fur that was 1203 00:47:51,499 --> 00:47:49,140 found but I think that's all kind of 1204 00:47:55,220 --> 00:47:51,509 falling apart I don't know if you hold 1205 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:55,230 any that dr. Melva I do I follow every 1206 00:47:59,509 --> 00:47:57,450 single story about Bigfoot so the thing 1207 00:48:02,150 --> 00:47:59,519 is with all paranormal and all you know 1208 00:48:03,529 --> 00:48:02,160 all the relevant side things there is 1209 00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:03,539 something missing from all the evidence 1210 00:48:07,729 --> 00:48:05,460 so like right now me and you whether 1211 00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:07,739 we're believers or not we believe that 1212 00:48:12,589 --> 00:48:10,710 we have seen electrons right we've seen 1213 00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:12,599 the pictures we have microscopes tiny 1214 00:48:16,999 --> 00:48:14,819 enough to like look the very fundamental 1215 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:17,009 particles of life atoms and such we 1216 00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,140 believe that we believe in energy we 1217 00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:21,119 believe in life I know there's like zero 1218 00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:22,710 like physical evidence of Wi-Fi we 1219 00:48:27,819 --> 00:48:25,049 believe in life on we believe that we've 1220 00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:27,829 seen exoplanets you know in the galaxy 1221 00:48:31,849 --> 00:48:29,700 bazillion miles away 1222 00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,859 none of us nobody on the planet maybe 1223 00:48:35,630 --> 00:48:33,839 there's a fee for injuries most people 1224 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:35,640 on the planet do not disagree with that 1225 00:48:39,009 --> 00:48:36,930 these things that are like those things 1226 00:48:42,769 --> 00:48:39,019 are hard to swallow as a layman as 1227 00:48:44,779 --> 00:48:42,779 ghosts and cryptids and everything else 1228 00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:44,789 we swallow those and we swallow those 1229 00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,640 for a very specific reason and that 1230 00:48:52,660 --> 00:48:49,440 reason is just not there when it comes 1231 00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:52,670 to the paranormal and cryptozoology and 1232 00:48:57,470 --> 00:48:55,140 even aliens which aliens is a great 1233 00:48:59,599 --> 00:48:57,480 topic because any educated person in 1234 00:49:02,480 --> 00:48:59,609 science would say yes extraterrestrial 1235 00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:02,490 life is a extremely high probability 1236 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:05,160 whether they visited us there's I would 1237 00:49:09,290 --> 00:49:07,770 you're the scientist would say but they 1238 00:49:11,690 --> 00:49:09,300 would look so there's there's something 1239 00:49:14,530 --> 00:49:11,700 missing something missing between that 1240 00:49:16,970 --> 00:49:14,540 electron that's one bazillion of 1241 00:49:19,010 --> 00:49:16,980 micrometer across that we believe exists 1242 00:49:20,839 --> 00:49:19,020 or even that two inch salamander that we 1243 00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:20,849 know that there's only one left in the 1244 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:23,310 jungles of Borneo we all have saw seen 1245 00:49:27,170 --> 00:49:25,170 that National Geographic photo and say 1246 00:49:29,660 --> 00:49:27,180 yes we believe that salamander exists 1247 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:29,670 mm-hmm but then we see that that video 1248 00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:32,250 clip of the ghost in the high school 1249 00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:36,089 hallway that goes viral a massive 1250 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:37,710 percentage of the country doesn't 1251 00:49:42,109 --> 00:49:39,210 believe it so there's some there's some 1252 00:49:43,730 --> 00:49:42,119 disconnect in evidence like what what 1253 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:43,740 paranormalists would call evidence and 1254 00:49:47,870 --> 00:49:45,450 what scientists would call evidence that 1255 00:49:50,420 --> 00:49:47,880 we just haven't bridged so that to me is 1256 00:49:52,579 --> 00:49:50,430 very telling the scientists can explain 1257 00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:52,589 invisible forces that you cannot sense 1258 00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:54,089 none of them I can't sense anything 1259 00:49:58,220 --> 00:49:55,950 about electromagnetism with my body or 1260 00:49:59,599 --> 00:49:58,230 you know ultraviolet or all these things 1261 00:50:03,500 --> 00:49:59,609 I cannot sense but I believe 100% 1262 00:50:06,829 --> 00:50:03,510 because a scientist told me and a ghost 1263 00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:06,839 or a cryptid like you said even bones or 1264 00:50:11,329 --> 00:50:09,089 scat we just don't have those so there's 1265 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:11,339 there's this fundamental hole in the 1266 00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:13,530 paranormalist belief that for some 1267 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:15,660 reason we cannot fill this is quiet our 1268 00:50:20,540 --> 00:50:16,890 ability to believe anything like 1269 00:50:22,849 --> 00:50:20,550 literally the layman atheists yeah most 1270 00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:22,859 materialistic guy will believe the most 1271 00:50:26,780 --> 00:50:25,470 extravagant things from science so if 1272 00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:26,790 there's something missing I don't I 1273 00:50:30,109 --> 00:50:28,140 don't know what it is after like a you 1274 00:50:31,070 --> 00:50:30,119 know my entire life of being law loving 1275 00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:31,080 this kind of stuff I still don't know 1276 00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:32,760 what that is myself but there definitely 1277 00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:35,849 is something missing in evidence section 1278 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:38,730 it's like you know the testing it has to 1279 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:42,690 be retested you know test it over and 1280 00:50:44,690 --> 00:50:43,290 over again 1281 00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:44,700 that's basically what to say about 1282 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:47,520 science but what you said earlier you 1283 00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:50,450 know a lot of science is observational 1284 00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,400 like everything else like well for 1285 00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:55,680 instance the argument you could have 1286 00:51:01,700 --> 00:50:58,920 with a scientist about this whole thing 1287 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:01,710 as dark matter and dark energy you know 1288 00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:04,530 how do they explain that when they only 1289 00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:07,980 have signs of it yet yeah when it comes 1290 00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:09,300 to anything paranormal they're not 1291 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:12,800 willing to take a look at it they just 1292 00:51:16,250 --> 00:51:15,810 you know you know that may change 1293 00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:16,260 because 1294 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:18,500 there are some there are more people 1295 00:51:24,350 --> 00:51:22,290 interested as time when it comes to 1296 00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:24,360 especially what the possibility of life 1297 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:25,260 on other planets 1298 00:51:29,570 --> 00:51:27,570 that's a great example so like dark 1299 00:51:32,090 --> 00:51:29,580 matter has been in you know it's been a 1300 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:32,100 theory I don't know I'm not an expert 1301 00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:33,810 that pretend has been a theory for fifty 1302 00:51:38,450 --> 00:51:36,150 years you know and it's basically 1303 00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:38,460 accepted with caveats 1304 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:40,920 whereas ghosts have been around for 1305 00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,570 millennia yeah we're still not even 1306 00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:44,400 accepting those with caveats like not 1307 00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:47,250 even with caveats were saying no secular 1308 00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:49,950 science and is saying you know and a 1309 00:51:52,850 --> 00:51:50,910 half the population of the world is 1310 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:52,860 saying no ghosts here after millennia of 1311 00:51:56,810 --> 00:51:55,290 stories the dark matter is closer to 1312 00:51:59,090 --> 00:51:56,820 being a reality reality in people's 1313 00:52:00,800 --> 00:51:59,100 minds then ghosts or then Bigfoot 1314 00:52:02,210 --> 00:52:00,810 yeah Bigfoot a dark matter which one we 1315 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:02,220 would go with most people would go dark 1316 00:52:07,310 --> 00:52:04,050 matter in a second so again there's just 1317 00:52:09,020 --> 00:52:07,320 weird ineffable thing I don't know this 1318 00:52:11,570 --> 00:52:09,030 I don't know I don't know if it's at 1319 00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,580 some points you know you just said the 1320 00:52:14,060 --> 00:52:12,720 word ghost too much which other word 1321 00:52:16,430 --> 00:52:14,070 Bigfoot too much and it hasn't the 1322 00:52:18,530 --> 00:52:16,440 evidence hasn't progressed like you said 1323 00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:18,540 it's as we retested and you know have to 1324 00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:20,280 go through processes and come out the 1325 00:52:23,090 --> 00:52:20,760 other end 1326 00:52:24,770 --> 00:52:23,100 yeah at some point the Bigfoot mythology 1327 00:52:26,270 --> 00:52:24,780 has never really changed it's the same 1328 00:52:27,290 --> 00:52:26,280 as it was a hundred years ago 1329 00:52:29,660 --> 00:52:27,300 two hundred years ago a thousand years 1330 00:52:31,490 --> 00:52:29,670 ago with bet and monks ghosts haven't 1331 00:52:33,950 --> 00:52:31,500 changed I mean we in the past 20 years 1332 00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:33,960 we've had some you know electronic 1333 00:52:37,310 --> 00:52:35,430 devices like jumped into the fray 1334 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:37,320 mm-hm but our basic stories around 1335 00:52:42,380 --> 00:52:39,330 ghosts have not changed whereas our 1336 00:52:45,110 --> 00:52:42,390 theories of the universe the solar 1337 00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:45,120 system basic particles of matter all 1338 00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:46,470 that stuff it's kind of changed and 1339 00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:48,000 progressed there's just no progression 1340 00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:50,250 and paranormal like feel like there's 1341 00:52:52,940 --> 00:52:51,660 needs to be there needs to be some time 1342 00:52:55,610 --> 00:52:52,950 progressed enough knowledge information 1343 00:52:56,660 --> 00:52:55,620 and change and all those things that we 1344 00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:56,670 go through with all the other things 1345 00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:58,410 it's just not there for some reason and 1346 00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:59,760 I don't know why I don't even if I 1347 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:01,260 wanted to be there honestly I don't know 1348 00:53:03,740 --> 00:53:02,490 if I want to know that goes 1349 00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:03,750 I love ghost stories I don't know if I 1350 00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:05,580 want them to change yeah but that kind 1351 00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:08,160 of continuum is just not there for all 1352 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:09,960 of those things well I told this story 1353 00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:13,010 before but I'll tell it to you now and 1354 00:53:19,820 --> 00:53:17,520 basically I had you know um I don't know 1355 00:53:22,670 --> 00:53:19,830 if I want to call it a ghost but I had 1356 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:22,680 something happen to me absolutely 1357 00:53:28,850 --> 00:53:26,130 firsthand that I would gladly take a lie 1358 00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,860 detector test because it happened you 1359 00:53:31,770 --> 00:53:29,920 know and I I witness 1360 00:53:33,329 --> 00:53:31,780 that and that was basically I was 1361 00:53:35,309 --> 00:53:33,339 cleaning out a house it was not an old 1362 00:53:38,490 --> 00:53:35,319 house it probably made in the 1940s or 1363 00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:38,500 something and this was in New Hampshire 1364 00:53:46,799 --> 00:53:43,569 and as I was cleaning out the top floor 1365 00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:46,809 basically I was putting coat hangers in 1366 00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,049 and bags and stuff like that and when I 1367 00:53:55,230 --> 00:53:52,240 had opened the closet in a bedroom with 1368 00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:55,240 all the windows down by the way when I 1369 00:54:00,000 --> 00:53:57,490 had opened the closet door I realized 1370 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:00,010 that no one had cut the bottom of the 1371 00:54:04,289 --> 00:54:01,930 door when they put the carpet in so I 1372 00:54:07,289 --> 00:54:04,299 had to drag the door open on the carpet 1373 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:07,299 and it was really hard to open so as I 1374 00:54:10,770 --> 00:54:09,130 loaded everything into the bag and I 1375 00:54:15,059 --> 00:54:10,780 went into the hallway at the closet door 1376 00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:15,069 slammed and there was absolutely no I 1377 00:54:20,039 --> 00:54:17,470 couldn't figure out any explanation for 1378 00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:20,049 it at all and then I opened reopened the 1379 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:21,670 door and sure enough it dragged really 1380 00:54:28,289 --> 00:54:25,210 hard and I closed it and then I slid the 1381 00:54:30,420 --> 00:54:28,299 broom down the stairs and all of a 1382 00:54:33,299 --> 00:54:30,430 sudden the door slammed and there was no 1383 00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:33,309 win that day I went down the stairway 1384 00:54:38,579 --> 00:54:35,140 and the broom was leaning up against the 1385 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:38,589 door and the door slammed after you know 1386 00:54:42,510 --> 00:54:40,930 after I had slid that broom down and a 1387 00:54:46,620 --> 00:54:42,520 couple more things happen there and I 1388 00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:46,630 have no idea what it was but I do know 1389 00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:49,240 that it actually happened yeah you know 1390 00:54:54,089 --> 00:54:51,670 I saw this happen with you know with my 1391 00:54:57,870 --> 00:54:54,099 own eyes and I experienced it so again 1392 00:55:00,380 --> 00:54:57,880 I'm reticent to call it a ghost I don't 1393 00:55:02,819 --> 00:55:00,390 know what it was but it was something 1394 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:02,829 and I would say I'm one experience I'm 1395 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:04,210 one experience away from believing 1396 00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:05,890 anything you know I just need that one 1397 00:55:12,750 --> 00:55:09,520 that doesn't matter what aliens they put 1398 00:55:15,059 --> 00:55:12,760 ghosts republican-democrat doesn't 1399 00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:15,069 matter I think one experience away from 1400 00:55:21,329 --> 00:55:18,250 switching suicides at any given time but 1401 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:21,339 again it's hard to trust ourselves the 1402 00:55:26,339 --> 00:55:22,690 number of times I've been wrong in my 1403 00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:26,349 life lead me to believe I will always be 1404 00:55:30,990 --> 00:55:29,200 wrong so it's really hard to even 1405 00:55:33,089 --> 00:55:31,000 believe myself like half the time I 1406 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:33,099 experienced anything so it is rough it's 1407 00:55:38,099 --> 00:55:36,130 rough we're like we're like you know 1408 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:38,109 again we're like these physical three 1409 00:55:40,859 --> 00:55:39,490 dimensional entities trying to figure 1410 00:55:43,770 --> 00:55:40,869 out something that's much and much 1411 00:55:45,660 --> 00:55:43,780 faster than us yeah I know the 1412 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:45,670 was an anniversary of Fatima have you 1413 00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:48,370 did you ever follow that at all 1414 00:55:53,130 --> 00:55:50,680 that's was when they thought they 1415 00:55:56,010 --> 00:55:53,140 thought they saw the Virgin Mary but but 1416 00:55:59,640 --> 00:55:56,020 people saw you know something else and 1417 00:56:00,990 --> 00:55:59,650 they saw the Sun move and all that no I 1418 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:01,000 don't think I mean I definitely love 1419 00:56:05,010 --> 00:56:02,650 like really just like an iconography and 1420 00:56:07,290 --> 00:56:05,020 like images of Madonna's and Jesus is on 1421 00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:07,300 stuff I didn't know about this one yeah 1422 00:56:10,650 --> 00:56:08,920 this happened I think it was around the 1423 00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:10,660 world war one something like that but 1424 00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:12,790 the thing that intrigues me is when 1425 00:56:18,660 --> 00:56:15,430 there's some type of mass sighting 1426 00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:18,670 you know people can say that it was mass 1427 00:56:24,090 --> 00:56:22,390 hallucination I don't know but yeah I 1428 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:24,100 love those type of stories when there's 1429 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:26,010 a lot of people involved in witnessing 1430 00:56:30,030 --> 00:56:28,690 item 2 so which is a good good thing to 1431 00:56:31,110 --> 00:56:30,040 bring up and it's really relevant to our 1432 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:31,120 conversation especially in New England 1433 00:56:35,310 --> 00:56:32,770 we have in New Hampshire we have a lot 1434 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:35,320 of like very famous UFO occurrences 1435 00:56:40,050 --> 00:56:38,410 right yeah that lots of people saw but 1436 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:40,060 then we just talked about like 20 1437 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:41,530 minutes ago but the Salem witch trials 1438 00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:45,210 which was a you know a town-wide 1439 00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:48,430 statewide almost delusion you know so if 1440 00:56:56,460 --> 00:56:52,690 we can believe that elderly women are 1441 00:56:59,280 --> 00:56:56,470 witches as an entire town we can do that 1442 00:57:00,330 --> 00:56:59,290 with anything not even just paranormal 1443 00:57:02,940 --> 00:57:00,340 stuff anything like Phil Laak 1444 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:02,950 philosophies and society and we can 1445 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:05,770 believe we can all especially these days 1446 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:06,970 social media we can all with Michelle's 1447 00:57:11,730 --> 00:57:09,610 into a frenzy over any idea and be 1448 00:57:14,430 --> 00:57:11,740 completely wrong in Mass we can be wrong 1449 00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:14,440 in Mass but that's not like the witch 1450 00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:15,910 trials teaches me that's what Twitter 1451 00:57:21,150 --> 00:57:18,310 teaches me is that we can be wrong in 1452 00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:21,160 Mass but it's still like you just said 1453 00:57:26,070 --> 00:57:24,430 it gives a level of fascination and 1454 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:26,080 interest to any story where there was 1455 00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,930 multiple witnesses where there was large 1456 00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:29,920 groups of witnesses were there were 1457 00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:31,180 those official witnesses if there were 1458 00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:33,040 police oh yeah we have the incident we 1459 00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:34,360 have the incident Exeter here in New 1460 00:57:38,310 --> 00:57:36,640 Hampshire right which was seen by the 1461 00:57:40,620 --> 00:57:38,320 police local police it was like a random 1462 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:40,630 dude but then the police came and so on 1463 00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:42,730 to you know it's like that's way 1464 00:57:45,330 --> 00:57:44,110 different than just the random dude it 1465 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:45,340 saw it and didn't wrote a book about it 1466 00:57:49,230 --> 00:57:47,050 20 years later you know yeah so it 1467 00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:49,240 definitely changes a story in like a 1468 00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,000 really cool way right excellent 1469 00:57:56,550 --> 00:57:54,400 well we're out of time I want to thank 1470 00:57:57,660 --> 00:57:56,560 you very much and just real quickly do 1471 00:58:00,329 --> 00:57:57,670 you have any other 1472 00:58:03,270 --> 00:58:00,339 books in mind in the future or you can 1473 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:03,280 say I do I do I don't know which one's 1474 00:58:09,210 --> 00:58:06,250 gonna so it's a me and my agents and are 1475 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:09,220 a couple there's are definitely knocking 1476 00:58:12,180 --> 00:58:10,690 it around not enough to like announce 1477 00:58:16,349 --> 00:58:12,190 the next book but we definitely have 1478 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:16,359 quite a few ideas excellent okay and one 1479 00:58:21,329 --> 00:58:17,890 more time if you would just give your 1480 00:58:23,849 --> 00:58:21,339 website out yeah odd things I've seen 1481 00:58:26,700 --> 00:58:23,859 dot-com so Otis is the acronym odd 1482 00:58:28,170 --> 00:58:26,710 things I've seen calm lots of stuff ik 1483 00:58:29,700 --> 00:58:28,180 tons of ten years of content on that 1484 00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:29,710 site oh I know I love that site it's 1485 00:58:35,490 --> 00:58:32,400 great yeah someone send me a link and 1486 00:58:37,970 --> 00:58:35,500 I'm grateful for that so alright thanks 1487 00:58:40,170 --> 00:58:37,980 so much it's been a been a lot of fun I 1488 00:58:42,809 --> 00:58:40,180 enjoyed it thanks you thanks Rodney 1489 00:58:46,020 --> 00:58:42,819 alright you take care now you do then 1490 00:58:48,450 --> 00:58:46,030 alright alright everyone so thanks for 1491 00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:48,460 listening and we are going to be back 1492 00:58:54,299 --> 00:58:53,049 next week with Linda Zimmerman and she's 1493 00:58:57,750 --> 00:58:54,309 gonna be talking about graveyards 1494 00:59:01,020 --> 00:58:57,760 asylums and crime scenes twenty years of 1495 00:59:04,410 --> 00:59:01,030 ghosts investigators like ghosts 1496 00:59:06,809 --> 00:59:04,420 investigators best cases so that should 1497 00:59:09,329 --> 00:59:06,819 be a lot of fun so again I want to thank